FontMoot 02

by Frodo7
Cloned from FontMoot 01 by Frodo7.

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Clone of FontMoot 01.
Info: Created on 31st August 2010 . Last edited on 31st August 2010.
License Creative Commons
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Sometimes I don't have a fontstruction to share or a comment to make. Sometime I just want to ask something general font-related or tell something interesting. It would be nice if there was a place to do that...on fontstruct, I mean.
Comment by thalamic 31st August 2010
@thalamic I know it's not a perfect solution, but you can use Twitter and include #Fontstruct in your tweet, which will make it show up in the Fontstruct Live feed.
Comment by aphoria 31st August 2010
That's a good idea, aph. I guess I have to start using twitter now.
Comment by thalamic 31st August 2010
That didn't work.
Comment by thalamic 1st September 2010's not working for me either.

@meek Can you help us?
Comment by aphoria 1st September 2010
Looks like it's broken. I'll take a closer look tomorrow.
Comment by Rob Meek (meek) 1st September 2010
I think one of the major problems of FS is that it doesn't really allow new(er) FS users to shine out, especially since the small 'Live' box on the front page only features fonts made by some FSers. I feel new users should be given more support and suggestions so that they can improve and excel at an equal level as the leets.
Comment by 3moDuDe 9th September 2010
Also, when you flip a brick then try to stack another brick on top, the stack reads the first brick as the unflipped one.
Comment by 3moDuDe 10th September 2010
@3moDuDe I've helped a lot of people on this site, and it has been reciprocated. However the good designers will always shine through. If you show potential then you're bound to get others assisting you sooner. If you show no signs of skill or creativity, then you'll have to work a bit harder. We are not paid to help, so it's easier to help those who just need a little nudge here and there.

You've done a lot of designs, and had no rewards, so I understand your frustration. However I feel that your work is not quite ready for the big time quite yet. I think you should think out of the box, stop playing safe, be really creative, and do something spectacular.
Comment by djnippa 10th September 2010
@3moDuDe I echo djnippa here.

FontStruct is a big community and it is hard to get noticed. We try to automatically filter what appears on the front page as a precaution - this is the first page that many new visitors see so we want to be cautious with it. I think more regular users spend more time looking at the live page and the gallery though.

In terms of help, I think the FontStruct community is unusually welcoming and helpful. Unfortunately we haven't got the resources to help everyone individually from FontStruct HQ but I think in many cases community members are in a better position to offer advice. The idea of a forum has often been mooted. Its still very much on the table and could provide an alternative way to get help and feedback.

Your work and community contribution certainly hasn't gone unnoticed. I'm loving rnd0m.

About the stacking thing - yes I'm aware of that but thanks for reminding me.
Comment by Rob Meek (meek) 10th September 2010
@3MoDuDe (and DjNippa) : I think there's truth in both of your statements. I also helped many people here, but people DjNippa wouldn't have helped because they were working in the alien genre, which is not his cup of tea. As he said, we're not paid for it, so we react with our own sensibility, the one we're the most at ease with so that we know we can be helpful. 3Mo you're also right for the fact that newcommers have to fight twice the installed ones just to be heard, but maybe it's not a bad thing because it makes you trying to outstanding yourself. Dj's also right when he says to stop playing safe and be really creative, but i'd add that even then, don't put the importance on the feedback you could have, just take confidence in the construction of your own style and universe. Sometimes you should have bad or no feedback, that's not telling you're doing wrong, the important thing is to be confident and persevere and grow, if you develop a real vision, at one point you'll find the way to share and make it evident to the community, at least a little but enthousiast part of the community if your vision is a bit too much weird and out of standards. Concerning the rewards, it depends of Afrojet and Meek, they also have their own tastes and sensibilities... At one point, if you're growing with a real vision, you will also meet their sensibilities. THe master word is confidence, and not be afraid of hard work, even if you're not put on the sunlights, by the (very small, in fact) human community of FS. You're young, as i already commented on one of your fonts, you show an amazing maturity for a 14 years old boy, but to find a real voice needs maybe a bit more, it's in the doing that you'll find. Just continue. Some seem to have already a strong voice from the start. But even if they're new in typography they've made many things before : when i began here, i already had a personal world and decades of creation before me. You're so young, at 14, i didn't ever had began my creative path, it's only when i was about 17 that all really took a new face and start ! Courage and Brave heart, 3MoDude.
PS : I'm french, so excuse my sometimes aproximative english.
Comment by Abneurone Fluid Types 10th September 2010
@Rob Meek : you say that FS is a big community, where are they ? cause i think we're a little dozen to comment and feedback regularly on the livepage, so from the point of view of feedback, i think it's a really small community !
Comment by Abneurone Fluid Types 10th September 2010
Speaking of samples: I'd like to have a way to see all the samples for a single user in a handy way. Maybe a modified version of the live page, where you can filter by user and/or samples.
Comment by minimum 10th September 2010
@neurone_error They are all over the world. There are 295,459 of them so far. We get over 100,000 unique visitors a month. But it's true, the number of people who comment regularly is a tiny fraction of that. Still, I think it's a generous and helpful fraction.

@minimum yes I'd like that too - something like a live page for every user would make a lot of sense.
Comment by Rob Meek (meek) 10th September 2010
@dj, meek, neurone: Thanks for the comments. Looks like I'll just have to go back to more FSing! >.<

p.s. @neurone: Your English is better than my ol' French teacher's. :D
Comment by 3moDuDe 10th September 2010
@Rob Meek : Wow ! these amounts make me dizzy ! I think the "display only" function could really make sense then, maybe all these people use FS as a software and don't want to share their work because they don't want to let the download free. I think more would participate then, and the little tiny hardcore community could grow, because of the comments we could make on undownlable fonts.
Comment by Abneurone Fluid Types 10th September 2010
100,000 unique visitors!!!!
This number is much greater than I thought.
Comment by naveenchandru 10th September 2010
Two requests I don't think have been raised before:

1) Time zone settings
This may not be a problem for the majority of the FS network that reside in North America / Europe. But for Asian users of FS (such as me) the time is extremely off. This is just a simple request to make the time on the live page modifiable by time zone selections.

2) Unification of links
When you click on the name of the FontStruct on your FontStructions page it leads to a link ending in the name of the font, but when clicking the "View" button it gives a link ending in numbers. I think these should be unified just to the one ending in numbers, because if you use the one ending in the name other users are unable to follow the link if it is posted in a comment (or description of the font).
Comment by 3moDuDe 13th September 2010
Thanks for the suggestions.

With the time zone. I'll think about that. Anyone else find that important?

Yes the links with the numbers are more reliable. If you ever link to your FontStruction you should use that link. If people rename their FontStructions then the "pretty" links with the name at the end do not work. The "pretty" links however are more attractive to search engines and easier for humans to work with.
Comment by Rob Meek (meek) 13th September 2010
@meek: I point this (the linking) out because many people provide the "pretty" links in comments etc. which are sorta broken and then require other FS users to go and search for the font in the gallery.
Comment by 3moDuDe 13th September 2010
I think it is time we get auto-linking to @user tags in comments. And for added usefulness of the autolinks, maybe the user can get email notification to the comment so s/he can trackback. I think a lot of commentervations™ gets lost because we forget what we said where and when it was replied to, &c.
Comment by thalamic 16th September 2010
Another website based feature request: Addition of 'Preview Uppercase Only Sample Text', 'Lowercase Only Sample Text'.

It would be nice to have, but not critical.

The reason: While making glyphs, I tend to experiment a lot which results in a whole bunch of similar shapes created. For example, I may generate 5 different G shapes. Say none of those shapes is an unreasonable G so I hold onto them to see which might fit in better when the limitations of the design allows for only 1 reasonable M shape. Without deleting 4 possible final G, I move the four currently disfavored G to 'g'. If I'm working on the uppercase, the lowercase of the same soon fill up with extras. To test how things are shaping up, it is easiest to just to a Preview Sample Text. If the lowercase are filled with junk letters, what appears in the preview window is TTTTHHIIINNGGGG. All different T's, H'es , Is, Ns and Gs. that I type it out, it sounds stupid.

Nevermind. :-)
Comment by thalamic 22nd September 2010
Quote from Gene’s Arc Brick 2:2 Sample Font:
The main thing to deal with in working with bricks using the 2:2 filter is to remember that each brick needs to be handled on the lower left. Since every brick now spans two grid spaces horizontally and vertically in a square, you will need to click and drag bricks from the lower left corner. This can get really confusing with multiple overlapping bricks.
Outline mode is a pretty nifty way to inspect glyph construction, but by and large it does not solve the gui problem Gene identifies here. How about adding a new view mode(s) which can be toggled to assist in finding the corners and extent of each brick?

This could be done in a variety of ways. A) A mesh-style, four-way gradient fill/overlay (say LL stronger red, UL subtler blue, UR subtler white, LR subtler yellow) + partial transparency for each brick. B) Indicating the lower-left corner of each brick’s area by overlaying a small right triangle of arbitrary color. C) A rollover effect which highlights a brick when one mouses over its selectable region.

I intend that my words paint a proper picture. Just too lazy right now to whip up an infographic. If there is great interest, or my words fail, I’ll give it a go (besides, I highly doubt my words convey just how pretty permutations of option A could look ;)
Comment by William Leverette (will.i.ૐ) 24th September 2010
Also, thalamic’s basic idea above is good... How about expanding it?

Give fontstructors the option to define a custom text string in their profiles always available and ready to go in the preview widget.

Sites like myfonts, of course, have even more advanced caches and variable input previews with access to RSS-feeds and the like (in addition to some truly stunning pangram collections). Matching that example may be too much to ask. Though how fun would it be if you could, say, plug the fs live feed directly into the preview widget :-)
Comment by William Leverette (will.i.ૐ) 24th September 2010
@Rob MEEK : Have you any idea of when you will add the "Display only" or "All rights reserved" button ? I have at least a dozen of works i'd like to share and open to feedback, discussion and constructive critics, BUT NOT TO DOWNLOAD.
Comment by Abneurone Fluid Types 26th September 2010
@Meek - Sorry for replying a month later. I think your idea for a button to order/re-order FontStruct characters so they follow the ANSI 1252/"Windows" ordering would be perfect; I tend to "overthink" things, and your solution is both simple and elegant. Also, thanks for allowing such suggestions to be made here!
Comment by Goatmeal 2nd October 2010
While going through FM01 I saw a suggestion by sahwar:
2. Add a "Canvas Size Used for the Current Glyph" statusbar message.
to which meek replied:
I'm not sure how the canvas size display would be useful.
Well, certainly in the process of doing the most recent competition, I've found that this suggestion might actually be useful while FontStructing. :D
Comment by 3moDuDe 10th October 2010
Also, even if the time zone thing is not put in place, I hope in future the staff will put GMT time in their blog posts which would greatly help everyone in understanding what the correct time in their time zone is.
Comment by 3moDuDe 17th October 2010
This "forum" hasn't been active lately, but I had an idea: what if someone created an account here named "forum", and each "font" they'd release was a different topic to discuss? I don't know if an actual forum is in the works, though it's been requested before, but could this work as a temporary solution?
Comment by V. Sarela (Yautja) 17th April 2012
@Yautja Good idea! That sounds great! I actually did ask meek about a forum but he didn't want to do one. Who will start the forum?
Comment by demonics 17th April 2012
I could volunteer for that, if others are okay with the idea.
Comment by V. Sarela (Yautja) 18th April 2012
There is a facebook fontstruct group which can function as the forum of sorts.
Comment by thalamic 18th April 2012
Hm, well I'm not on Facebook, and I'd like to keep the discussion in FS.
Comment by V. Sarela (Yautja) 18th April 2012
I agree about the forum. I've many things to be discussed and improve this site to be better.
Comment by cablecomputer 19th April 2012
That would be great Yautja, thanks for volunteering.
Comment by four 19th April 2012
I'd actually like to create the account, if you don't mind Yautja. If you want to, then just let me know. I have a great idea for the avatar. :)

Here's the problem:
Who will get to know the password? Only the person who creates the account, or everybody, or what? Remember CollabRat? I didn't much like that because only the "best" FSers were chosen, and others were left out. If you want me to make the account, I would probably just keep the password to myself and almost never sign on as "forum" so it wouldn't be unfair. I would comment on the forums as demonics. That's what I suggest you do, Yautja, if you end up being the one to make the account.
Comment by demonics 19th April 2012
Sure, go ahead. I also thought that only the creator would know the password, and would then comment with their own account.

Another thing I thought about is that you could write the topic title in the font in some basic pixel style for example, and keep the same style for all the topics, so it's more visible and it's not mistaken as a regular font.
Comment by V. Sarela (Yautja) 19th April 2012
Right, sounds good. Thanks, I'll do that in a few hours!
Comment by demonics 19th April 2012
Right, sounds good. Thanks, I'll do that in a few hours!
Comment by demonics 19th April 2012
@demonics: Just asking, are you sure you're the only one who knows the password of the "forum" account, so only you can sign in with that? And you say you'll open the "forum" account as often as your "demonics". Isn't that makes you busy for sign in and sign out in just minutes for many times? Isn't that would be better if you share the password so everyone can open that "forum" account so that he or she can post problems of themselves, not just commenting in your font?

This is just an opinion about your statement. Don't make it too serious guys ;)
Comment by cablecomputer 19th April 2012
He didn't say that he'll use the forum account as often as the demonics one? I figured that he'd only use the forum account to open new topics.

It may be a bit inconvenient if people can't open new topics themselves, but sharing the password might be a bit risky.
Comment by V. Sarela (Yautja) 19th April 2012
@Yautja, cable & demonix : I don't exactly understand how what you're proposing would be different from a page like this? Because even if you create a special account, you'll have to post a font page to discuss on the Livepage... Maybe i didn't get what you're talking about...
Comment by Abneurone Fluid Types 19th April 2012
In essence it's the same, but it would allow different topics to be discussed separately without making the comments section confusing and too long, and Frodo7 doesn't need to worry about all these comments coming here. But if there's not going to be much discussion, then I guess this is enough.
Comment by V. Sarela (Yautja) 19th April 2012
@Yautja : All right, i got it. What topics are you thinking about? Technical or Ethical ? I think Meek already more or less our technical doleances for a eventual FS3.0 version. But i think it would be a good thing to concentrate and sum up them one one place. ethically, you know what i think of the arbitrary and completely unfair system of the Top Picks. But it seems i'm the only one here who is shocked by how they're delivered, presented to the public as the best fonts of the site when they only reflect the taste of one man and exclude all that he can't judge because he can't understand... Some of us are more or less specialized and have great skills in some domain. For example, you Yautja would be perfect to judge Retrofutistic, I would be for the more baroque, extreme and alien approaches, Frodo7 for the more scientific, DjNippa or Aphoria for the modern legible, P2Pnut for the more traditional and Perfect FauxBezier, CMunk for experimental and innovative grids, Intaglio for the Funky, Beate for the "vector" fontstructions, etc. Each top pick should be attributed by an expert in the domain of the font itself, in my humble opinion...
Comment by Abneurone Fluid Types 19th April 2012
Yes, that could be one topic, and others could be for suggestions/bug reports, questions/advice on creating fonts, introducing yourself, general talk, etc. And one could be made for forum-related discussion and requests for new topics. But all don't have to be FS related.
Comment by V. Sarela (Yautja) 19th April 2012
Everyone, here is what I will do to end the confusion.

I will almost never use the forum account, only to pose topics. See, if I were to let everyone know the password, it would be too messy and overrun by beginners asking How do I download fonts?or How do I make these angles?Then again, if I kept the account to myself, people might think it would be unfair. The last solution might also have people feeling that it is unfair: only invite a few select people. I think the best option is to keep it to myself and never use it to do anything else but announce the topics. Neurone, don't you think that top picks administered by anyone is unfair? And who would choose who gets to pick? I say we leave it as is. It isn't so much what meek likes as it is meek trying to choose the BEST FONTS. It's clear there are many opinions, and delving too deep into the topic could cause harm and leave people feeling angry. So I will create the account soon, and everyone just try to stay calm. Neurone, really no harm intended. We may not agree but let's try and keep the peace.
Comment by demonics 19th April 2012
@demonics : no, i don't think it's unfair, it would add more justice in the contrary in my opinion, if people affiliated to the genre of the font could award and support it. Maybe we wouldn't have half of the top picks which would be given to hundreds of blackletter similar fonts automaically top picked just because they are blackletter fonts when only 2 or 3 alien, weird or really innovative fonts would eventually be. Maybe we wouldn't have hundreds of fonts presented as the best, when actually they're only copies with ugly polygonal curves of already existing fonts in the vector world...
But, as i said above, it seems to not shock anyone but me here, so my voice has no absolutely no weight...
Comment by Abneurone Fluid Types 19th April 2012
@yautja: Sorry about the wrong words, I understand it makes you getting confused.

@demonics: I've another idea about the password:

You can share the password with private messages. And only for selected people, you can choose them, it's up to you.
Comment by cablecomputer 20th April 2012
@neurone Think about this. You're complaining that choosing fonts based upon meek's opinion is unjust, while you're suggesting that OTHER people do the same thing! So when meek does it, it's not fair; when beate or p2pnut does it it is fair? I can see we have different opinions on this, and I don't think it's worthwhile to discuss.

@cable yes, but the people who weren't chosen may feel bad. I want to do something that is good for everyone.
Comment by demonics 20th April 2012
@demonics: Hmm... So you wanna make something that fair for everyone? That's a bit difficult, but it's the best choice. Don't worry, I will suggest my opinions to help you until you find the way.
Comment by cablecomputer 20th April 2012
@cablecomputer I am just going to keep the account password private, but anyone can comment on the topics. In fact, people can make suggestions on topics, and I will do my best to publish the requested topics. Thanks for your help @neurone @cable.
Comment by demonics 20th April 2012
Hey guys, demonics here. I finally made the forum account! Tomorrow I will make the first topic, avatar, etc. This is exciting!
Comment by User-Founded FontStruct Discussions (forum) 21st April 2012
Comment by chupztugz Tue, 3rd November

@chupthug Dist

Comment by Hensley Dodson (Hensilly) Sat, 14th November

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